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about the Lorica Musculata
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:51:47 -0500 From: Matthew Amt Subject: Re: Evidence for Leather Muscled Cuirass and Images of Subarmalis in Roman Art To: Ave!

Thank you for your compliments, and many apologies for my delay in answering. Just been swamped for a couple months.

The evidence you present is fascinating, no mistake. I'll have to say right off the bat that the muscled cuirass is not an item that I've done heavy research on! You know a lot more about the subject than I do, and I'll have to make a few adjustments to my Officers page.

However, I'm still a little leery. Part of my stance against leather is frankly reactionary, a deliberate attempt to prevent the spread of unsupported Hollywoodisms. I'm terrified of the possible profusion of yohos in all manner of cheesy suede and chrome-tanned vests as soon as they think that a leather musculata is "okay". Call me paranoid, but my website apparently has a scary amount of influence!

Also, I simply don't know enough about the artwork in question to know how far to trust it. I'm not one to write off anything odd as "artistic license", but just have little questions popping into my head. Is it possible that the clearer depictions of what look like leather cuirasses are later, while the clearly metal ones are earlier? Could there be a growing degree of stylization and inaccuracy? Is this all a sort of Hellenistic revival, not meant to show functional armor? Of course, they could be accurate depictions of an armor-like garment which itself was the Hellenistic revival, but then we get into all sorts of questions about material, color, etc. There is even the theory put forth by Robinson that many of these cuirasses may have been meant to represent mail or scale armor, but again I don't know enough about the artistic details to put too much weight behind that.

In the end, I'm certainly willing to admit that you could be absolutely right, and that such soft garments were well known at least as ceremonial wear. I'd still debate their use for battle, of course, and would be very surprised if they were ever brown or black! I'd love to know more, but it's not likely that I'll ever make a real research project out of it.

Hard to say what kind of reaction you'd get if you wore a leather musculata to an event. Many people would love it without question. A few might sneer at it as "Hollywood", it's true, so it might be a good plan to introduce people to the idea ahead of time through the Roman Army Talk board and other such media. Lay out your evidence much as you have done here, with photos and more details. Maybe even put up a webpage. Then all you have to do is avoid adding too much Hollywoodish glitz and doodads, and far fewer people could quibble with you. After that, when people ask me about leather musculata, I can simply refer them to you, and tell them whatever they make has to look as good as yours, or better!

In the meantime, I'm happy to take a look at whatever you come up with. And I'll tweak my website when I get a chance (I can even mention your name, if you'd like). Thanks for writing, and if there is anything else the Legion or I can do for you, don't hesitate to ask.

Vale,

Matthew/Quintus

-----------------

On 10/19/04 3:29 PM, "tlclark@temple.edu" wrote:

> Matt,

> > Just went through the website for fun, great stuff, fantastic > research, but caught some things that ought to be addressed.

> > First, on the page regarding dress for legates and tribunes > and the muscled cuirass - the page states that there is no > evidence that the muscled cuirass was ever made of leather. > Not so. In fact, all the bronze muscled examples come from > Hellenistic and Etruscan sources. No single Roman bronze > muscled cuirass has ever been found.

> > Now it's true no leather example has been found, but there > are many examples of a muscled cuirass in art that may be > made of a semi-flexible material, most likely leather or > layers of linen. In early republican monuments and trophaea, > the senatorial rank examples of armor are rigid, but appear > to be made along the same lines as the late hellenistic > linothorax. Later examples show, however that the cuirass is > probably leather.

> > On two examples in the Vatican, both bust portraits, one of > Lucius Verus, the other of Marcus Aurelius, the shoulder cape > is clearly made from a flexible material, and slit to allow a > tie to pass through. Something impossible in brass or > bronze. Elsewhere, there is a statue of Lucius Verus in the > Izmir museum showing a heroic nude image of the emperor. Next > to him is a cuirass (presumably his) that is slumped over in > the middle section, something that would be impossible if it > were rigid. Considering that everyone concurs that the > elaborate equestrian boots are clearly made of molded leather > it's silly to suggest a cuirass couldn't hae been made this > way. Unfortunately I have no pics to show you but I'd be > happy to dredge up a few. I'm going to Italy this Spring and > I will see what I can find.

> > Also when we see a muscled cuirass made of bronze, as it is > clearly the case on the Primaporta Augustus in the Vatican, > the shoulder cape has very large and prominent hinges and the > edges have rolled edges, as is common in other armor > examples. This is not true on most examples. Also, the > Primaporta Augustus Armor clearly opens up like a bivalve > clam, with side seams, allowing the armor to be split open to > put it on. On MOST of the examples of muscled cuirasses that > I have seen in Roman statuary, there are no side seems AT ALL > (amazing but true!!), meaning this must be a piece of armor > made of a somewhat flexible material, allowing the wearer to > pull it overhead and secure it by means of the cape and > shoulder straps. A opening in the back is possible (since > most of the backs are covered by the paudlamentum, it is > impossible to say) but an opening in the back would suggest a > flexible material too.

> > In short, there is A LOT of evidence that these are semi- > rigid or even fairly flexible pieces of equipment.

> > (I've been interested in making one for a long time and if I > ever do and show it off, I just hope I don't get sneered at.)

> > Also, on the subarmalis...there is some debate on this, but I > feel pretty confident that the subarmalis is seen all over > the column of Trajan in many scenes, particularly in scenes > of gatherings before the emperor where the soldiers are in > shown in a semi-formal camp situation away from any potential > battle, which is exactly what you would expect to see when > soldiers are at camp. I will have to look at it again > though, because it's been a while, but if I can find > examples, I will send it on.

> > I'm going to the Met this November with my digital camera. > If anything warrants sending, I will send it on, if you are > interested.

> > Any rate, minor quibblings, all in all this is great stuff, > and if I lived in the DC area, I would so want to join.

> > Travis Clark,

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:50:49 -0500 From: Matthew Amt Subject: Re: Evidence for Leather Muscled Cuirass and Images of Subarmalis in Roman Art To: On 11/17/04 10:54 AM, "Travis Lee Clark" wrote:

> Matthew:

> > Thanks for the reply, Here's the best image I have, it's from the Bergama > Museum in Turkey, it shows an Antonine Period General (Lucius Verus?) and a > muscled cuirass clearly made of a semi-rigid material.

Yeah, no getting around that one, is there? Just ain't bronze!! So, what the heck IS it? Can't be very protective if it's floppy, though it clearly has some body to it. Something that close-fitting is going to be impossible to pull on over the head, I should think, unless it only LOOKS close-fitting. Could it be the padding worn under a metal cuirass? Either just something that gets into artwork as a symbol, or having become a ceremonial garment in its own right, without the cuirass?

> Also, I've been looking into this a lot since I first wrote to you. The > problem, as you suggest, is a thorny one and a lot of it hinges on how the > artists' decided to represent the armor. For example, on the Altar of > Domitius Ahenobarbus, they have wonderful examples of early republican > lorica hamata, complete with all the links carefully carved (Incidentally, > the grain runs opposite the direction that most reproduction armor decides > to do it), But by the time we get to the column of Trajan, the artist just > drills a series of holes to represent chain-mail. It's a short hand that > works great if you are looking at an image from a distance, but close up it > doesn't tell you a dang thing about how this was actually made.

Right, I've seen everything from a depiction on a trophy with every ring carefully carved, to simple blank areas which were presumably gessoed and painted.

> If you look at the early examples, there is a clear difference between the > early officer's kits and later examples. The later Roman muscled cuirass, > seems to evolve not from the late Hellenistic bronze muscled examples, but > from the late Hellenistic linothorax. The detail that gives this away is > the waistline. The waistline on a linothorax is straight and slightly above > the waist (so the waist can move) and the lower abdomen is protected by the > pteurges. On the more familiar late Hellenistic and roman examples, the > waist line resembles a more anatomical curved line. Now this is really > exciting and I don't think anyone else has noticed this.

Yeah, no kidding--I feel like a blind man since you pointed it out!! Gah... And I've MADE a linothorax, you'd think I could spot one. See, for years, we've all been going by Robinson's idea that there were just "short" and "long" versions, the former presumably better for mounted work. Guess we've been stuck in a box... Another indicator worth looking for: the neckline. Curved on older muscled cuirasses, straight on the linothorax (and on Philip II's iron version).

> ON the early roman > muscled cuirasses, the waist line is straight, no surprise there, and on all > later imperial examples, the line is the anatomical one, suggesting that the > simple linothorax is replaced by the bronze ceremonial breastplate. Then I > took a look at Trajan's armor on his column, and guess what!!? The waist > line is straight!! I think what may be happening is that there are TWO > different types of armor, one practical, one ceremonial, and that we confuse > the two. The fact that the examples on the column, which seems very > preoccupied with military accuracy, shows a straight waistline, more like a > linothorax, but with the muscled upper body, suggests to me that Romans may > have adapted the linothorax to a molded leather, but hung on to the late > Hellenistic ceremonial armor.

Could also be that the 2 distinct older forms of armor are melding in various ways, maybe even just in art if not reality.

Just to screw things up more, someone on the Roman Army Talk board recently pointed out that the upper row of pteruges on some of those figures looks like it is worn OVER the armor--they sort of bulge out at the top as if hung over a belt, so they aren't necessarily just sticking out from under the bottom edge of the cuirass. Now, I haven't studied the art, but I understand what he's saying and do seem to recall such a visual effect.

> In terms of utility, Boiled leather would be tough enough to make decent > armor.

Sure, but the problem is the usual one: no evidence that the Romans were boiling leather. None has been found, even though there are tons of shoes, tent pieces, etc., which presumably would be less likely to preserve than thick leather armor. Plus, the only reference I know of to leather armor says that it's no good in wet weather because it gets soggy. So that doesn't sound hardened, it sounds more like rawhide. And that gets back to one of my biggest nagging questions, Why on earth would an aristocrat bother getting leather armor, when he could get it in metal for about the same weight, much better protection, and vastly more impressive in looks? Just seems odd.

> (I think bronze would be unwieldy for cavalry forces anyway)

But there are Hellenistic cavalry cuirasses, with more room at the bottom for sitting on a horse. A short cuirass like the lorica or linothorax-style thing is no problem at all. Anything that's mobile enough for foot combat is good enough for cavalry.

> My major > problem is not the suitability of leather in a fight, but how these things > were put on. As far as I can tell, there are NO side or back seams on any > images that I can find. Even leather would be too rigid to pull over your > head like a sweater, but I can't see how else it was done.

Yeah, that's the problem. Any detailed sculpture that shows no seam implies to me that either it's at most a padded undergarment (whether waiting for metal to go over it or just a ceremonial vestigial custom), or that artistic license has finally gone too far around the bend from reality, and we're screwed! If it's rigid enough to serve as real armor, it's gotta have an opening. IS there any possibility that some of these things could have been painted as mail originally? I know that's not too likely with the highly detailed statuary.

> Should be a > paper in there somewhere, (Once the dissertation is done of course!!)

If you write it, we will read!

> Thanks for the feedback, I have images of most of these things, so if you > are interested, let me know.

Sure, I'd love to see more! I'll keep them all in a file, but won't put them online or even hand them around too freely without your say-so. Copyright, and all that (I work in library, and my wife's an artist!). I've got Robinson's "Armour of Imperial Rome", so I should start by just poking through that. I'm assuming you have access to that, but if not, lemme know and I can copy the Musculata chapter for you.

Sure is intriguing stuff! Hey, if you ever get the urge to research Mycenaean armor, DO let me know, it's my current passion. And this Bronze Age stuff makes me feel like a babe in the woods.

Thanks again, Vale,

Matthew

From: mamt@lrcm.usuhs.mil Subject: Re: Oops!: Updated page on the lorica musculata Date: March 25, 2005 9:19:59 PM CET To: tlclark@temple.edu Ave, Travis!

Mea culpa for the long delay, too many things that needed to be done "now". You may know that story!

I have read through your website, and am basically loving it. Thanks much for the kind references! Your research is impressive, and the stuff you've been digging up is extremely thought-provoking.

Now for the critical bits, mostly either questions/clarifications, or nit-picky less important things. But a couple bigger points.

In the "Bronze or Leather?" section, you show the bronze cuirass from the British Museum and say that it's the only one from Italy that's close to the Roman period. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your definition of "Roman period", but there are quite a few cuirasses from Italy that date from probably the 6th or at least 5th century through the 4th and maybe into the 3rd. Peter Connolly shows several and mentions others--he even shows one which has been widened front-to-back for riding on horseback and says 2 others are know, all from Italy. Since I tend to think of the Roman period as starting in 753 BC or at latest around 500, these would all count, though I certainly agree that they aren't anywhere near the IMPERIAL period (nor even the end of the Republic). There is also all sorts of artwork from that period showing various Italians in muscled cuirasses and several kinds of linothorax, so you are right about the latter being an important part of the equation.

This doesn't even get into the fact that the vast majority of ancient artifacts are in private collections, generally with little or no solid provenance. And the vast majority of what's in the museums is in storage (though of course muscled cuirasses would tend to get into the display cases, one would expect!). It's scary to think of how much could be out there, unknown and unpublished.

Found a couple other cuirasses online, though they could be the same ones Connolly discusses. All from Italian graves, apparently:

http://www.geocities.com/ulfberth/Etruscan.htm

http://www.sas.upenn.edu/%7Edpd/italicarmor.html

And just for grins, a Muscled Pectoral, very popular among the Samnites. GOTTA get me one of those!

http://www.royalarmouries.org/extsite/view.jsp?sectionId=1317&assetId=1158

If nothing else, this shows the Italians weren't afraid to carry features of the musculata (rather early musculature, in fact) over to other types of armor. Note that the muscled pectoral is not just a musculata that has been shrunk down--the small pectoral has a long history and was used alongside full body cuirasses before the muscled look even appeared.

All these pretty pictures lead to the issue of survival, or lack thereof. I really think it's important that Roman burial and votive customs were different from everyone else's by the Republican period. Etruscans and Samnites were still going for nice burials in painted tombs with the warrior's full panoply, while the Romans cremated. Anything being sacrificed to the gods was left in a temple, like the Greeks did, and would be subject to later recycling or plain looting. These practices were continued by the upper classes well into the Empire, even when votive offerings in water or bogs were becoming common amongst the legionaries and auxiliaries out in the provinces. Accidental loss of an officer's muscled cuirass (no matter what material) was darn rare, and many of those cuirasses would have been recovered immediately by either friend or foe. The rest could have rotted away, or been turned up and lost over the next thousand years, or still be sitting in the ground and waiting to be found! Even on the best-known archeological sites, usually only a small percentage of the area has been excavated. Scary again.

So my point is that even if every aristocratic officer had one or more cuirasses, and even if they were ALL metal, a complete lack of surviving examples today doesn't surprise me.

There's a chapter that deals with decorated muscle cuirasses in "The World of Roman Costume" by Sebesta and Bonfante, and I took a quick look through it recently. All I have is a rather crappy photocopy, so the photos aren't great. But it does mention something like a hundred decorated cuirasses shown in sculpture, so the author has clearly done some research. If you don't have access to this book, I can at least pass along the name of that chapter's author, and any other info about him that might be mentioned. Sounds like he'd be worth talking to.

Actually, I was inspired to check that chapter when I was reading your description of the Prima Porta cuirass. It kind of threw me for a moment because I thought you were trying to say that it was the only one decorated with scenes of people and such! Obviously you were referring only to the specific scenes and activities being portrayed, but you might want to clarify that section.

Seams and closures, etc., in no particular order:::

The body of the linothorax was essentially one piece, tying shut at the left side. It was flexible enough to bend open and shut. So it makes sense if a non-metallic cuirass has no seam on the right side. (The interesting thing is how the shoulder flaps stick straight up when not tied! Mine don't do that any more.) I also noticed in a couple of the later sculptures you show how the neckline is squared. On the original linothorax, of course, the top edge of the body is simply straight, and the sides of the neck opening are defined by the flaps. But by the later period the whole neckline is there, though the shape remains. Fascinating...

On the whole issue of details being lost (or added, ack!) due to artistic stylization, the impression I get from other military items is that stylization is starting to edge out the realism in the second century. The troops shown in that Antonine relief are less accurate than those in Trajan's Column, which itself is already of very debatable reliability on such matters. But there seems to be more and more Hellenistic influence creeping in, practically "neo-Classical", and I wouldn't be surprised if the depictions of aristocratic armor is much more accurate than the pictures of the grunts. There is a strong belief that most urban "propaganda" art from the second century onward is just based on Trajan's Column, with a clearly growing degree of "melt-down" over the years.

SO, when I see a sculpture that lacks side seams, I still tend to think it just got left out. BUT I promptly think, Then what about all the rest of the amazing little details they DID put in?? Okay, never mind all that, back to Square One...

That statue with the groove down the side (Palazzo Massimo?)--It really looks to me like the whole statue was cut in half at some point! Maybe when the new head was added? Might be original if two slabs of stone were stuck together to make the statue (bizarre idea, no idea if anything like that was ever done!). Or maybe it was cut apart during recovery, or some later time? Wacky. I don't think it's meant to portray a seam, but of course it could be where a seam was portrayed at some point!

Hey, on the rounded tabs on the headless statue in Palazzo Massimo, there is a short raised thingy near the top of each. Seems to be a vestigial hinge tube, which as I recall are much more clearly shown on some earlier statues. I always assumed that those were metal tabs hinged directly to the cuirass, but of course on the later ones they look more like part of the subarmalis, especially since they're all connected in a row along their top edges.

Molded leather--There's no real need for it to be hardened or boiled. Leather can be sculpted and more layers applied, and we know that in the middle ages they were adding decorations in gesso. You could even apply decorations of embossed or thinly cast metal (heck, even if the armor is metal). As you say, there are all manner of "drawer pulls" and other metal doodads that could have been armor parts.

I could swear that somewhere, way back when, I saw a picture of the Louvre relief as it was found--no heads on the guys in front, the middle of the left-hand man missing. You can see the diagonal flaw running across his lower chest, and a horizontal line through his pteruges. That belt he has is SO bogus!

Oh, nitpick on belt terminology: The plated military belt is a balteus, though for many years (and often still now) was called a cingulum. That seems to be a later term, 3rd century AD or so. We call the straps hanging down in front the apron, but yeah, they usually have metal terminals.

Candelabrum--can't quite see in the photos, but could that be an army signum?

Roman military organization: Yes, the Republic had a citizen army, with the eligible men (landowners) supplying their own gear. Marius generally gets the credit for throwing recruitment open to any citizen, landed or not, and built his own private army that way, at his own expense. He may in fact have supplied his troops with equipment, BUT this did NOT become standard practice! We tend to talk about "state-supplied" gear in the late Republic and early Empire, but in fact the troops are paying for everything out of their salaries over the course of their enlistments. We even have letters from soldiers asking their families to send them weapons and such! There is clearly a regular arms industry, probably lots of local sub-contractors, etc., and there is evidence for gear being made and stored in legionary fortresses during the first century AD. But just what the requirements were or how "issuing" was done, we really don't know. Items like belts and daggers might have been personally acquired, but they still follow very strict fashions. It seems to be that troops were equipped to a uniform level, but not necessarily to a uniform appearance.

The third century AD is when actual state-issue of gear begins. It was made in centralized factories, different areas specializing in different items.

Legionaries were supposed to be citizens, though it is said that many eastern legions enlisted provincials and simply granted them citizenship when they signed up. Auxiliaries were usually non-citizen provincials, and were often granted citizenship upon discharge but not always. There were also a couple auxiliary cohorts of Italian citizens, and some other auxiliary units won citizenship en masse for valor.

I wouldn't say that "many" recruits could hope to become centurions, though it was certainly a goal. Some centurions were direct appointments from the equestrian class, and those were probably fast-tracked for promotion through the hierarchy, more likely to reach the highest ranks. But for those starting on the bottom, it was a better hope for social mobility than most would get in civilian life!

Egads, this has gone on way too long! I did a few tweaks to my Organization and Officers page a week or two ago, but didn't add a link to your site cuz I didn't know if you were ready yet. So I guess we'll talk some more!

Great stuff, and keep it coming!

Vale,

Matthew

---------------------- On 3/14/05 11:35 AM, "Travis Lee Clark" wrote:

After all that I forgot the link!

Here it is:

http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica

Thanks,

Matthew and Bill,

Woke up this morning utterly burned out on the whole dissertation thing. Took the morning off and pulled some of my images and thoughts together on the lorica musculata.

I would appreciate it if you could look it over and give me suggestions and let me edit it, then we can start publicizing it.

If anyone out there has any requests of any known images of loricae in the Rome area that they want images of, please let me know.

Thanks,

Vale!

Travis

From: tlclark@temple.edu
Subject: Re: Oops!: Updated page on the lorica musculata
Date: March 26, 2005 4:54:08 PM CET
To: mamt@lrcm.usuhs.mil

On Mar 25, 2005, at 9:19 PM, Matthew Amt wrote:

Ave, Travis!

Mea culpa for the long delay, too many things that needed to be done "now". You may know that story!

I take it you don't do Roman for your day job either? This is fun for me, totally done in my spare time, so I totally understand.

Now for the critical bits, mostly either questions/clarifications, or nit-picky less important things. But a couple bigger points.

Fire away.

Since I tend to think of the Roman period as starting in 753 BC or at latest around 500, these would all count, though I certainly agree that they aren't anywhere near the IMPERIAL period (nor even the end of the Republic).

Yeah I reread this and it should be a lot clearer.

Two issues. First, "Roman" is both a tribe and then later a nationality. From the 8th to the 5th C. the cultural powerhouse of the region is Etruria, who control most of Rome, until the first Brutus throws them out with the last king, Tarquin Superbus in 533/34 and establishes the early republic. Is that a Roman period or an Etruscan period? Good question with no easy answer.

Also, even when the Romans are expanding their dominion the area under their control is not "Roman" but Sabine, Latin, Samnite and a dozen other Italic tribes, most of which have imported armor styles from the Greeks and maintain cultural independence from the Romans for some time. Roman nationality isn't even extended to all the Italian tribes until Claudius, but by that time all of these groups, though ethnically not Roman were culturally Roman. As far as I know, most of the examples of cuirasses are found in Italic contexts, not specifically Roman ones, from before this acculturation process. Finding a bronze cuirass anywhere in Italy in the second century BC or later would clinch it for me, since this is well into the "Roman" period when these groups were culturally Roman. But that isn't the case. This doesn't appear to be a tradition the Romans got until rather late. Before that, as near as I can tell, (and in this I may just be wrong and need to look again) all the others seem to be Italic in context, which begs the question. How come all of these other Italian tribes adopt muscled cuirasses, and the Romans don't? It's just baffling. Cremation is the norm across the region, though most of the Northern tribes also practice some form of inhumation and include grave goods even with cremains. Romans don't generally, though there are isolated cases of funerary goods, it isn't nearly as common. So maybe they did, but the armor got passed down, used up, melted down and otherwise destroyed, while the other traditions preserved it. In short, I don't think any of these examples are close enough in either date or region to argue for the existence of Roman muscled cuirasses.

Secondly, the greater portion of examples of the cuirasses in art are all in the late Republic. 150 BC and forward. If you add this all up, there is no continuity, in my opinion, between the bronze muscled cuirass of the hellenistic period and the later lorica. The later 3rd C. is a big hole frankly. What the heck is going on in Roman armor in the 3rd C!! That's when these things were first conceived and there is precious little info about any of it. Most of the art is after that and before that I'm not seeing any examples of the lorica. That's a pretty significant historical break. I'm open to the idea that these few examples are Roman or influence the Romans, but how come we don't see examples in decidedly Roman Contexts in decidedly Roman periods? It's just baffling.

I went to the Villa Guilia the other day, the Etruscan Museum here, and I've been to the Gregorian Etruscan Museum in the Vatican. There are endless examples of Etruscan and Italic armor, in art and artifacts, case after case of the stuff!! Samnite, Latin, Sabine, Villanovan...it's all over the place. There's even a few examples in the Museum of UPenn in Philly and a bunch in the Met in NY. But nothing Roman. It's far easier to recreate the panoply of a 7th or 6th BC Etruscan than it is the Armor of a 2nd C. BC (or even AD for that matter) Roman! Why that should be the case just baffles me. I can only guess that there was some strong cultural practices, techniques, materials, religious beliefs or combination of the above, that precluded the preservation of the armor, but exactly how just escapes me.

There is also all sorts of artwork from that period showing various Italians in muscled cuirasses and several kinds of linothorax, so you are right about the latter being an important part of the equation.

Thanks, I should cite Bishop, I just reread something of his and he said as much though I didn't get it from him. Oh well, I only care if I'm original in Byzantine studies.

This doesn't even get into the fact that the vast majority of ancient artifacts are in private collections, generally with little or no solid provenance. And the vast majority of what's in the museums is in storage (though of course muscled cuirasses would tend to get into the display cases, one would expect!). It's scary to think of how much could be out there, unknown and unpublished.

Bastards!! Everyone of them. They should be hung up by their thumbs until they fork it over. (Just kidding, but only slightly) Actually even if they did it wouldn't matter since the private art scene is contaminated by fakes too good to spot and none of this stuff has provenance so it's very hard to determine age and period. Looking at the artwork, the fasteners for the shoulder harnesses are very simple so I'm sure we have some of them mislabeled somewhere.

Found a couple other cuirasses online, though they could be the same ones Connolly discusses. All from Italian graves, apparently:

http://www.geocities.com/ulfberth/Etruscan.htm

http://www.sas.upenn.edu/%7Edpd/italicarmor.html

And just for grins, a Muscled Pectoral, very popular among the Samnites. GOTTA get me one of those!

http://www.royalarmouries.org/extsite/view.jsp?sectionId=1317&assetId=1158

If nothing else, this shows the Italians weren't afraid to carry features of the musculata (rather early musculature, in fact) over to other types of armor. Note that the muscled pectoral is not just a musculata that has been shrunk down--the small pectoral has a long history and was used alongside full body cuirasses before the muscled look even appeared.

That's a cool one!! I hadn't seen it before. Is the pectoral a native Samnite device that adopts the muscled form? That would be cool if it was. That would augment my theory a lot if it panned out. Thanks!! Here, check out this one from the Upenn Museum. I love this one, nothing to do with the topic but a cool pectoral from the Villanovan period. It's the one in the background. http://www.museum.upenn.edu/new/exhibits/exhibitsfeature.php It's all geometric design and has a cool rib right down the center.

All these pretty pictures lead to the issue of survival, or lack thereof. I really think it's important that Roman burial and votive customs were different from everyone else's by the Republican period.

I agree. I think that explains the lack of evidence. I wish their cultural practices had been different, that way we wouldn't have to argue, but even that is kinda fun.

So my point is that even if every aristocratic officer had one or more cuirasses, and even if they were ALL metal, a complete lack of surviving examples today doesn't surprise me.

I have to admit that it's possible but I would hope SOMETHING might turn up, but the vast majority of armor anywhere in the mediterranean is preserved in funerary contexts, so you might be right.

If you don't have access to this book, I can at least pass along the name of that chapter's author, and any other info about him that might be mentioned. Sounds like he'd be worth talking to.

Sounds great, pass it on. Cornelius Vermeule (spelling?) has catalogued nearly all the cuirassed statues in the Greco-Roman world. Quite a feat! Unfortunately, his book isn't on the shelf here in Rome or I would look up quite a few things.

Obviously you were referring only to the specific scenes and activities being portrayed, but you might want to clarify that section.

yeah you're right, the writing could be better. Again, not my day job. I'll fix it.

Seams and closures, etc., in no particular order:::

The body of the linothorax was essentially one piece, tying shut at the left side. It was flexible enough to bend open and shut. So it makes sense if a non-metallic cuirass has no seam on the right side.

I had thought about that. In most of these statues the right arm is raised in salute or in the typical roman gesture for speaking. The left arm is down, either covered with the paudalamentum or holding the parazonium (spelling?) Which means that if they closed like the linothorax, they would have seams on the left, and the statuary wouldn't show it because it would be covered up!! Quite inconvenient, but possible. However looking at a few examples, where I can clearly see the left side, it doesn't appear to have side seams either, so maybe not.

(The interesting thing is how the shoulder flaps stick straight up when not tied! Mine don't do that any more.) I also noticed in a couple of the later sculptures you show how the neckline is squared. On the original linothorax, of course, the top edge of the body is simply straight, and the sides of the neck opening are defined by the flaps. But by the later period the whole neckline is there, though the shape remains. Fascinating...

Actually I was looking at necklines again today. The square ones with the higher neck section, which is vestigial, is the most common, but the variety in neck openings is huge. I think you are right though, the neck lines of the Roman cuirass are inspired by the Hellenistic linothorax. Most of the earlier Greek bronze muscled cuirasses have round ones. So I think you're right. They are trying to mimic a variety of armors. The Lorica musculata is really an odd duck. It is the equivalent of fantasy armor, borrowing from whatever tickles their fancy.

There is a strong belief that most urban "propaganda" art from the second century onward is just based on Trajan's Column, with a clearly growing degree of "melt-down" over the years.

Well the Byzantinist in me is going to have to smack you with a wet noodle for that "Melt-down" crack. It's not meltdown, it's a change in preference. Romans have a long tradition of both simplistic abstract primitive or nativist styles and realism. Both exist during all periods. By the Imperial period, the realism becomes the "official" style but Freeman gravestones are still done in that almost caricature style. Somehow, not really sure how, the caricature style overtakes the realistic style by the Mid second century, but it's a slow transition. By the time of the 5th century we have pagan senators making private art in the realistic style, (thinking of the Nicomachi dyptych which looks like it could have been made in the 5th C. BC and it was actually made in the fifth C. AD!) and Emperors making stuff in the more primitive or native style. So it's a total reversal. I think that by that time the idea was that you wanted to convey spiritual aspects of the emperor's (and subsequently Christ and the saints) personality that are harder to express in realistic terms. that explains the larger eyes, the frontal views, the lack of emotion or delineation in the muscles. It's not a meltdown, it's a shift and private art continues in the classical tradition until the 8thC! For more on this I would suggest Thomas Matthews, The Clash of the Gods, and Jans Elsner's works.

SO, when I see a sculpture that lacks side seams, I still tend to think it just got left out. BUT I promptly think, Then what about all the rest of the amazing little details they DID put in?? Okay, never mind all that, back to Square One...

Oh gosh it's a headache isn't it!! I think some details became VERY important, while others were less so. Unfortunately they never wrote down which ones, so it's all just guessing on our part.

That statue with the groove down the side (Palazzo Massimo?)--It really looks to me like the whole statue was cut in half at some point! Maybe when the new head was added? Might be original if two slabs of stone were stuck together to make the statue (bizarre idea, no idea if anything like that was ever done!). Or maybe it was cut apart during recovery, or some later time? Wacky. I don't think it's meant to portray a seam, but of course it could be where a seam was portrayed at some point!

Well it's not two pieces of stone, it's one piece of stone with a groove. The head is separate but that was common in the Roman era, these things would get produced in advance and then the head would get slapped on when it sold. The groove follows the side exactly where the side seam would be. Interesting side note. On a lot of modern reconstructions, the seam is just straight, since that 's the easiest way to do it, but none of the seams on the statues are straitht, they follow the contour of the body and are further back under the arm and closer to the front at the waist. A lot of work, but there it is. This groove is the same way. I can't imagine why they would need to do that though. My best guess is that something was there, and it needed the groove for it to be inserted, the caption was utterly unhelpful, even by Italian standards.

Hey, on the rounded tabs on the headless statue in Palazzo Massimo, there is a short raised thingy near the top of each. Seems to be a vestigial hinge tube, which as I recall are much more clearly shown on some earlier statues. I always assumed that those were metal tabs hinged directly to the cuirass, but of course on the later ones they look more like part of the subarmalis, especially since they're all connected in a row along their top edges.

Yeah, there is another example of this on a cuirassed statue of Domitian in the Fogg Museum at Harvard. It's on the Perseus website, (which is expanding into Roman Stuff!) They have lots of pages on it for some reason. It looks like some sort of hinge or lacing. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/image?lookup=1997.03.3870 I think the tongue pteurges may have been separately made or molded and laced together. If true, this could be a precursor to Byzantine lamellar Armor, which would be exciting.

Molded leather--There's no real need for it to be hardened or boiled. Leather can be sculpted and more layers applied, and we know that in the middle ages they were adding decorations in gesso.

If you get leather wet, you can even mold it by hand and press it out from the back like repousee, if you are talented enough. Getting the really fine and tight details though would mean a mold and pressing it, and that's easier if it's boiled or treated. I think it would be really elegant if they did it this way, but applique is just as possible I have to admit.

You could even apply decorations of embossed or thinly cast metal (heck, even if the armor is metal). As you say, there are all manner of "drawer pulls" and other metal doodads that could have been armor parts.

Actually, there is a lot of evidence for applique' bronze plates. There's tons of thin bronze applique and gilded applique material that was attached to vases, furniture all kinds of stuff. I don't have any examples at my fingertips though. I've never seen anyone associate this material with armor, but that might be lack of imagination on the part of art historians.

I could swear that somewhere, way back when, I saw a picture of the Louvre relief as it was found--no heads on the guys in front, the middle of the left-hand man missing. You can see the diagonal flaw running across his lower chest, and a horizontal line through his pteruges. That belt he has is SO bogus!

Well that's what I thought but the EUR museum here has their plaster cast of the same relief with exactly the same reconstruction. They have another reconstruction of a Praetorian with that belt, but who knows why. I added a correction to that page. I've never seen a belt, other than the officer's knot, over a muscled cuirass so it makes me very suspicious but at some point some scholar must've thought it reliable.

Candelabrum--can't quite see in the photos, but could that be an army signum?

Actually Signae do show up, but not as frequently, It is definitely a candelabrum, it doesn't have the disci or any of the other features of a signum, but a signum is not out of the question. Actually a candelabrum isn't just a lamp stand for an oil lamp. Most are elaborate bronze things with lots of volutes and decoration and only one large lamp up top. It's a religious symbol and used as the "focus" or sacred fire or as a sort of portable incense altar. Incense and libations were often poured over it.

Regarding your info on Roman military equipment and how it was procured, very helpful. I said it was all foggy recollections from my own memory, so I'm not surprised I missed a lot of nuances. I will update the page accordingly. In general, what would you add to that section to clarify it?

I think the site is ready for it's "beta" test, so start linking to it. I will add the corrections and clarifications you request and will throw it out there and see what sticks. Thanks a ton.

BTW - Watched the Passion by Mel Gibson last night, since it was Good Friday. When you are watching that and the only thing you think to do is criticize the Romans Armor, you know you have a problem.

Vale!!

Travis.